Greta Eggbound

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Marcial

Greta Eggbound

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Posts: 1547

(04/23/08 10:00:31)

Forum super duper Ultra Chondro!

I came home on Monday from a 4 day vacation at the beach. Greta was due to lay any day when I left last Friday, so I was hoping to come home and find her sitting on a clutch. I got home at around 6:00pm and, to my surprise, she had just started to lay (usually my females prefer to lay while I am on vacation and leave their eggs scattered all around the cage, in the water bowl, etc). I counted 3 eggs and figured I would leave her alone for a while. By midnight she had only laid 1 more. By the next morning (yesterday) she had 6 out, but still had a HUGE lump, so I knew there were more. I decided to give her until I got home from work yesterday to see if she would get them out. I removed the original 6 eggs and placed them in the incubator (they all looked perfect, btw).

When I got home there was nothing new. I soaked her and, per the advice of someone I trust, squirted a few syringes of saline in her cloaca and gently tried to palpate the eggs out with no luck. I could see and feel them moving around inside her, but could not work them out. I took her to the vet last night. Thankfully, it was their night to stay open late. I spoke to the vet this morning and she still had not laid them. He was going to xray her to see what we were dealing with, and then give her oxytocin/ptosin to coax her into laying. If that does not work, we are going to discuss how to proceed next later tonight.

He mentioned removal of the eggs by C-section as a potential option. Has anyone ever tried this and successfully hatched the eggs?

How have you guys resolved eggbinding in the past? Are there any non-surgical alternatives? I would hate to subject her to surgery and then end up loosing all the eggs anyway.

Marcial Mendez
marcialmendez@hotmail.com
www.chondrolicious.com
www.chondrocoalition.com

Brandon Osborne

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Posts: 659

(04/23/08 10:13:52)

Forum Ultra Chondro!

Damn Marcial, I'm sorry to hear about this. I had a female become eggbound last year with all the same problems. Oxytocin was given and nothing happened. We waited a few more days and I mentioned c-section to the vet as well. He told me, and he really does know his stuff, that each egg would require an incision. I was ok as long as we could get the eggs out and she was alive. After I took her in, he tried something else before "cutting". She was put under normal surgical anesthesia, saline was injected into the cloaca as you mentioned, and the eggs were pushed out one by one with relative ease. You may want to mention this to your vet, and if needed I'll send you my vet's number. He's a great guy and probably would be glad to help. I sincerely hope you get her back in order.

Good luck.
Brandon

Brandon Osborne Reptiles

Marcial

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Posts: 1548

(04/23/08 10:34:37)

Forum super duper Ultra Chondro!

Brandon,

Thanks for the info. Were you able to save the eggs?

Marcial Mendez
marcialmendez@hotmail.com
www.chondrolicious.com
www.chondrocoalition.com

Ben Team

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Posts: 932

(04/23/08 10:47:55)

Forum Ultra Chondro!

Damn Marcial, that sucks. Unless I am mistaken, retained eggs are never viable. They suffocate if not expelled into the oxygen rich air. If I understand correctly, even eggs retained for only a couple of hours are goners.
Sorry...maybe I am wrong...

Rico Walder

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Posts: 522

(04/23/08 10:52:32)

MVFonator

Hey Marcial,

Sorry to hear about this situation. If you do have to do a c-section there shouldn't be a need for more than one inscision. As long as the adhered egg is removed the rest should pass through the same opening. If additional eggs are adhered things may be different. Never had success incubating surgically removed eggs as I think once they eggs are ready to be layed they will not survive a prolonged peroid in the oviducts. At some point the egg needs to respire on it's own and if left in the duct they will essentially suffocate. I have seen females go through the surgery and reproduce again though. Perhaps that's a bright side? Good luck.

Rico Walder
Signal Herpetoculture
www.signalherp.com
Chondro Coalition
www.chondrocoalition.com

HecTorBar305

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Posts: 10

(04/23/08 11:03:51)

I have no experience on the matter so there is not much I could tell you but I wish you lots of luck . I hope everything turns out for the best! Please post how everything turns out.

Andrew A1

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Posts: 942

(04/23/08 11:31:30)

Forum Ultra Chondro!

Good luck Marcial. I really hate to hear that. Greta is an awesome animal.

Andrew

Gary Schiavino

Wishing you all the best

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Posts: 813

(04/23/08 11:44:19)

Forum Ultra Chondro!

Marcial,

I'm sorry, I have no helpful information; however I wanted to tell you that I'm sorry to hear about Greta, and I"m hoping that all works out well for her.

Keep us posted!
Gary

Paul Redelfs

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Posts: 53

(04/23/08 12:24:08)

MVF Post Breeder

Hey Marcial, That really sucks, I'm sorry to hear it.

It happened to me the year before last. The vet tried oxytocin and also tried to palpate the egss out as well.
He was only able to get one out and it went bad almost immediately.

In the end it took surgery to remove the eggs, and none of those were any good either.

The vet told me that the longer you wait to remove the eggs, the more damage that will be sustained because they (the eggs)
begin to adhere to the snake's tissue. In my case her ovaries had to be removed.

If you do decide the surgery route, make sure you find a very good vet that has done this before (on Chondros), otherwise she
will probably not be able to reproduce again.

I mention using one that has performed the procedure on chondros because I was told by several Vets that GTP reproductive
tissues are much more delicate than most snakes.

Anyway, good luck Marcial and keep us informed on her progress.

Paul

Cathy Maynard

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Posts: 1634

(04/23/08 12:59:24)

Bummed to hear that Marcial, I hope no matter what that Greta rebounds after this and does well!!

I have only had one girl go egg bound on me, she laid 4 good eggs and I think it was 7 slugs and I just "assumed" that she had a small clutch. I didn't take her to the vet until almost 2 weeks after laying, the only clue to me that something was wrong is that she wasn't perching normally.

My vet also told me that the sooner we act with these eggbound girls the better off they would be, he was bummed that I had waited almost 2 weeks. I wound up having surgery to have entire oviduct removed as the remaining eggs were glued to the tissue and were not expressing out manually. Sadly my final outcome was not so good. She never rebounded after the surgery and I lost her 3 weeks later.

Now I take every female to work with me the day after laying eggs and we do a quick x-ray just to make sure they're empty of eggs. So far so good.

Marcial

Update

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Posts: 1549

(04/23/08 13:15:57)

Forum super duper Ultra Chondro!

After the xray, it appears as though there are 12 more eggs left inside, and nothing seems to be obstructing their exit. They have administered oxytocin with no results. They are going to give her until tomorrow morning to lay them. If nothing happens they will put her under and try to palpate them out while her muscles are relaxed. If that doesn't work, they will have to go in.

Thanks for the well wishes, and I will let everyone know how it turns out. 18 eggs would have been nice, but I am glad that she was at least able to get 6 out... hopefully they will make it through incubation and hatch. The prime goal at this point is to get her well.

Marcial Mendez
marcialmendez@hotmail.com
www.chondrolicious.com
www.chondrocoalition.com

Chris Haight

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Posts: 470

(04/23/08 14:49:25)

MVFonator

Best of luck Marcial.....hope she makes a full recovery for you.

On a side note...i bet this would not have happend if it where a pure biak pairing ;-) only kidding of course.

tupperwarezoo

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Posts: 65

(04/23/08 15:05:21)

MVF Post Breeder

Marcial, Greta is an awesome animal and I hope she bounces right back from this. Good luck with the 6 eggs you're cooking.

Shiloh Hawkesworth

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Posts: 1609

(04/23/08 16:21:36)

Forum super duper Ultra Chondro!

Good luck Marcial... Keep us posted...

Shiloh Hawkesworth

MegF42

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Posts: 1842

(04/23/08 17:03:00)

Forum super duper Ultra Chondro!

Aspiration of the egg that's blocking is the easiest and least stressful way to get eggs moving. I'd try that first before subjecting her to surgery. A needle inserted thru the skin into the egg, the contents aspirated out and the subsequently thinner egg usually is passed quickly allowing the rest to follow. Most snakes don't even notice the needle stick.

5.5~Cornsnakes
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joemerlin

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Posts: 51

(04/23/08 17:12:44)

good luck, and best wishes
Joe

"No matter how little money and how few possesions you own, having a dog makes you rich."
- Louis Sabin

Sony Raju

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Posts: 964

(04/23/08 18:15:22)

Forum Ultra Chondro!

sorry to hear this marcial. hope she can get them all out without having to have surgery. she definately is one of my favorite chondros...will keep my fingers crossed for you.

Frols

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Posts: 177

(04/23/08 18:43:34)

Forum Chondro Junkie