New owner! Help please! in Morelia Viridis Forum Forum

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New owner! Help please!

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uhhlxxiss

New owner! Help please!

Lead

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Posts: 1

(02/19/12 16:57:20)

So we just got home from picking up our girl. A friend of a friend couldn't keep her, so my boyfriend and I stepped in. This is our first *real* snake. We have 3 corns, 2 crested geckos, and about 13 tarantulas, so we are used to keeping those guys, but I'm looking for some suggestions as a first time GTP owner. She wasn't probed or anything, so the whole female thing is just as assumption. We have available 10 gal, 20 long, and 55 gal tanks and were wondering what would be best. I would love to keep her in the 55 and set it up as her paradise, if it isn't too much room for her. I also have no idea what locale she is or anything, so I'd like to attach a picture and get some opinions on that as well (let me know if it doesn't work.) She's really feisty and snappy, for sure. But I love her anyways. Smile

And like I said, any/all advice is appreciated! I'm new to this and just want to make sure she's comfortable and happy.

Thanks!

-Alexis

AdamM

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Posts: 261

(02/19/12 17:25:19)

Looks to be a Biak type and if you can pick up the Complete Chondro. Glass aquariums will get you by but you'll want to get something that will hold the temps and humidity better. Preferably for a first time owner you'll want to look into a pvc cage.

Andrew Lockhart

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Posts: 179

(02/19/12 17:28:12)

Aquariums are not suitable for housing Chondros properly in my opinion. They don't hold humidity or heat well and have all glass sides making the animal feel insecure. PVC cages have become the standard in most houses. These are made from High Density Expanded PVC Board approx. 3/8" thick. On the cheap the best thing to keep a Chondro in is a rubbermaid type container. They hold humidity and heat relatively well. When he or she gets to adult size I often put them in appropriate size cage which is a 24" cube. Females sometimes go in larger breeding tanks that are 36" long. I always advise a heat panel from proproducts or reptile basics. I also advise that you must have a thermostat that is proportional style. These can be pricey but necessary to control the temperature of your heat panel. A helix or herpstat would be perfect. Someone is selling some helix's on the forum so grab a used one quick. There is so much to tell you about husbandry I don't know where else to head so just keep reading care sheets and on the forums. Maybe buy Greg Maxwell's book The Complete Chondro it has a lot of useful information. Or give me a call and I can answer what ever questions you may have or at least try my best. There is just too much to answer in a single post.

Looks like a Biak type chondro judging on color change and personality. I would get a $15 fecal float done when it poops to check for parasites and watch out for mites as well. I use either paper towel or Cypress mulch for substrate. Cypress holds humidity better but paper towel is easier to clean. I use PVC pipe for branches. I spray them then I wait for the substrate and cage to become completely dry then I spray again. Usually it is about 2 times a week spraying with a garden sprayer. I keep my temperatures a little lower now that I have found new info about Morelia and listening to experts. I keep a temperature gradient of 85-86 on hot side and down to 78-80 on cool side. They don't need high tanks they need a horizontal temperature gradient. This helps them better thermoregulate.

Shoot me an email at Sky 240 det (at) gmail.com and I will send you my number if you have more questions.

~Andrew Lockhart

IHerp Page

My Youtube Basement Reptile Breeding

NC Herp Society : Join your local herpetological society and help Educated, Preserve and Conserve for future generations to enjoy!

briantoia

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Posts: 2368

(02/19/12 17:41:31)

Welcome and I agree, looks like a Biak type to me. It's hard to tell from the photo you posted but it looks a little on the thin side and dehydrated. Can you post some better photos? Any info on where your friend of a friend got this animal? That would definitely help. If it's farm bred / import I would def suggest running a fecal. The book by Maxwell is a great start for beginners and it has lots of good info as well as this website. Read Read Read......this site is loaded with great info. All you have to do is use the search function and you can pretty much find the answers you are looking for. Great group of members here that are willing to help.

How big is your Chondro? My own personal opinion on cages is that HDPE is the new PVC. Only it's safer (doesn't outgas), it's easier to clean, and it will outlast a cage made of PVC. Proline (constrictors NW) makes a great line of HDPE cages.

-Brian

http://www.iherp.com/btoia28

Chondros for life!

pjolles

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Posts: 120

(02/19/12 17:41:36)

Biak.

Better buy one of these: http://tongs.com/smallhook.aspx

Or get a good supply of butterfly bandages and some neosporin.

Or both.

Enjoy your new snake...

Peter Jolles

http://peterjolles.com

pjolles@me.com
all snakes, all the time

tduane

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Posts: 593

(02/19/12 18:11:50)

Andrew Lockhart wrote:
Aquariums are not suitable for housing Chondros properly in my opinion. They don't hold humidity or heat well and have all glass sides making the animal feel insecure. PVC cages have become the standard in most houses. These are made from High Density Expanded PVC Board approx. 3/8" thick. On the cheap the best thing to keep a Chondro in is a rubbermaid type container. They hold humidity and heat relatively well. When he or she gets to adult size I often put them in appropriate size cage which is a 24" cube. Females sometimes go in larger breeding tanks that are 36" long. I always advise a heat panel from proproducts or reptile basics. I also advise that you must have a thermostat that is proportional style. These can be pricey but necessary to control the temperature of your heat panel. A helix or herpstat would be perfect. Someone is selling some helix's on the forum so grab a used one quick. There is so much to tell you about husbandry I don't know where else to head so just keep reading care sheets and on the forums. Maybe buy Greg Maxwell's book The Complete Chondro it has a lot of useful information. Or give me a call and I can answer what ever questions you may have or at least try my best. There is just too much to answer in a single post.

Looks like a Biak type chondro judging on color change and personality. I would get a $15 fecal float done when it poops to check for parasites and watch out for mites as well. I use either paper towel or Cypress mulch for substrate. Cypress holds humidity better but paper towel is easier to clean. I use PVC pipe for branches. I spray them then I wait for the substrate and cage to become completely dry then I spray again. Usually it is about 2 times a week spraying with a garden sprayer. I keep my temperatures a little lower now that I have found new info about Morelia and listening to experts. I keep a temperature gradient of 85-86 on hot side and down to 78-80 on cool side. They don't need high tanks they need a horizontal temperature gradient. This helps them better thermoregulate.

Shoot me an email at Sky 240 det (at) gmail.com and I will send you my number if you have more questions.

I disagree. Glass and plexi-glass enclosures have worked for many keepers and are still being used. There was just a post recently by Doomtrooper and he is using glass enclosures (http://moreliaviridis.yuk...k-preview#.T0GXblHDIso). You just need to understand the limitation. If the snake is having trouble adapting, then you can always cover the sides with a towel or paper. You can also added more cover in the tank. I also don't see the need to worry about humidity. IMO too wet is worse than too dry. I rarely mist my adult Chondros, and tend to only give them a few sprays right before they shed (old habit thats hard to shake). However, I do the same thing with my dirt snakes. I mainly focus on making sure that my snakes always have access to fresh water. If anything, I'd recommend getting a good dependable heat source and a decent thermostat to properly regulate temps.

Also, IMO a vertical tank can give you just as much temperature gradient as a horizontal tank. It would be cooler toward the bottom and warmer at the top. Having perches at different heights would allow the snake to thermoregulate by moving to a higher or lower perch.

+1 for the locale, looks like a Biak to me as well.

I'd recommend checking out the following thread. It contains links to useful information about husbandry and breeding.
http://moreliaviridis.yuk...VFr-s-alike#.T0GdcFHDIso

Best of luck!

Tad Duane

tad@houseoftheserpent.com
House of the Serpent

Last Edited By: tduane 02/19/12 22:00:46. Edited 2 times.

Andrew Lockhart

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Posts: 180

(02/19/12 18:12:32)

Yeah I thought it was the same as PVC but I use the HDPE as well. My fault.

~Andrew Lockhart

IHerp Page

My Youtube Basement Reptile Breeding

NC Herp Society : Join your local herpetological society and help Educated, Preserve and Conserve for future generations to enjoy!

uhhlxxiss

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Posts: 2

(02/19/12 18:45:44)

Thanks for all the replies and great information!

With some digging, we found out that she was picked up at a reptile expo. Unsure of the exact vendor, but the previous owner did say that she was farm bred. Have to find a vet to run a fecal on her for sure. And from my understanding, she fits the Biak type personality wise. She's definitely a snapper. =P
We put her in the 55gal tank and covered most of the sides for now. Her warm side is at 87 and the humidity is at about 60. We built a PVC perch for her with a few levels that aren't too high from the ground, but she coiled up on the nearest plant after initially exploring. Hopefully with the sides being covered now,she will feel a little more comfortable and move to the perches.
I'll try and get some better pictures of her as well. How can you judge the level of dehydration? We have a water dish available for her, but I have yet to see her drink. It's closer to the warm side of the tank, though. Should I move it? Or even add another dish in there?
When you say that you spray the tank twice a week, do you literally soak it? I'm having trouble gauging exactly how much I should be misting her.

Thanks again. I know my question was kind of vague, but if there is anything else that you think I should know, don't hesitate to chime in! I want her to be happy and healthy. She's a beautiful animal.

doomtrooper

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Posts: 1278

(02/19/12 19:33:48)

Looks Like a pretty Biak to me ... best of luck Welcome to slavery !

Cathy Maynard

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Posts: 2326

(02/20/12 06:26:23)

Glad you made it over here, welcome to MVF! Great help advice by some of the nicest chondro people you'll find anywhere!

There's a lot of good info buried in the pages of this forum too, go back and look at some of the old stuff when you get bored and want some good reading. Warning: Once you get the care requirements dialed in and you realize that these snakes aren't that difficult at all to keep...... you're going to want more!!

Cathy Maynard

http://www.iherp.com/chondrogal

uhhlxxiss

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Posts: 3

(02/20/12 07:55:38)

Cathy Maynard wrote:
Glad you made it over here, welcome to MVF! Great help advice by some of the nicest chondro people you'll find anywhere!

There's a lot of good info buried in the pages of this forum too, go back and look at some of the old stuff when you get bored and want some good reading. Warning: Once you get the care requirements dialed in and you realize that these snakes aren't that difficult at all to keep...... you're going to want more!!

Hey Cathy! Thanks for the heads up on this site. I love it already! The little one is still grounded as of this morning. She switched sides of the tank and is in a weird coil on the ground, still hasn't used her perch. I did peek in on her during the night and saw he moving around, so I think that covering the tank sides helped a little. Should I worry about her not using any perches yet?

lempan

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Posts: 13

(02/20/12 10:08:11)

uhhlxxiss wrote:
Cathy Maynard wrote:
Glad you made it over here, welcome to MVF! Great help advice by some of the nicest chondro people you'll find anywhere!

There's a lot of good info buried in the pages of this forum too, go back and look at some of the old stuff when you get bored and want some good reading. Warning: Once you get the care requirements dialed in and you realize that these snakes aren't that difficult at all to keep...... you're going to want more!!

Hey Cathy! Thanks for the heads up on this site. I love it already! The little one is still grounded as of this morning. She switched sides of the tank and is in a weird coil on the ground, still hasn't used her perch. I did peek in on her during the night and saw he moving around, so I think that covering the tank sides helped a little. Should I worry about her not using any perches yet?

Chondros can move to the ground and lay there for a longer or shorter time. They just feel like it sometimes, dont ask me why.. my Aru-type does it sometimes during the day and comes up to the perch in the evening or he stays there for a couple of days. I dont know... It´s a normal behavior, so dont worry about it. Nice chondro you have by the way!

Last Edited By: lempan 02/20/12 10:11:30. Edited 1 times.

uhhlxxiss

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Posts: 4

(02/20/12 10:12:24)

lempan wrote:
Chondros can move to the ground and lay there for a longer or shorter time. They just feel like it sometimes, dont ask me why.. my Aru-type does it sometimes during the day and comes up to the perch in the evening or he stays there for a couple of days. I dont know... It´s a normal behavior, so dont worry about it.

Thanks so much! I can't tell if I'm being an over-reacting new owner or if something is genuinely wrong. Tongue

Do you think we should soak her or just leave her be for a few more days.

lempan

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Posts: 14

(02/20/12 10:24:42)

uhhlxxiss wrote:
lempan wrote:
Chondros can move to the ground and lay there for a longer or shorter time. They just feel like it sometimes, dont ask me why.. my Aru-type does it sometimes during the day and comes up to the perch in the evening or he stays there for a couple of days. I dont know... It´s a normal behavior, so dont worry about it.

Thanks so much! I can't tell if I'm being an over-reacting new owner or if something is genuinely wrong. Do you think we should soak her or just leave her be for a few more days.

well.. if I read correctly in your earlier post, you have about 60% humidity? If thats correct, you shouldn´t spray the cage until it has dried out more. It´s not supposed to be soaked in water all the time, it has to be able to dry out, but that´s something you should work your way to depending on how fast it dries out in your cage. I spray for one minute 2 times a day in my cage, but it dries out fast in mine so.. And for the drinking part, your snake is going to drink if it wants to, they also drink from their coils frequently when the cage has been misted. So if it´s thirsty it will drink.

briantoia

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Posts: 2372

(02/20/12 11:20:38)

uhhlxxiss wrote:
Thanks for all the replies and great information!

With some digging, we found out that she was picked up at a reptile expo. Unsure of the exact vendor, but the previous owner did say that she was farm bred. Have to find a vet to run a fecal on her for sure. And from my understanding, she fits the Biak type personality wise. She's definitely a snapper. =P
We put her in the 55gal tank and covered most of the sides for now. Her warm side is at 87 and the humidity is at about 60. We built a PVC perch for her with a few levels that aren't too high from the ground, but she coiled up on the nearest plant after initially exploring. Hopefully with the sides being covered now,she will feel a little more comfortable and move to the perches.
I'll try and get some better pictures of her as well. How can you judge the level of dehydration? We have a water dish available for her, but I have yet to see her drink. It's closer to the warm side of the tank, though. Should I move it? Or even add another dish in there?
When you say that you spray the tank twice a week, do you literally soak it? I'm having trouble gauging exactly how much I should be misting her.

Thanks again. I know my question was kind of vague, but if there is anything else that you think I should know, don't hesitate to chime in! I want her to be happy and healthy. She's a beautiful animal.

Where are you located? I'm sure someone on here can recommend a good vet for you to see. Be prepared to treat your animal for nasties as the fecal will probably come back positive since it's farm bred.

The best way to tell if your animal is hydrated enough is to do the pinch test. Gently pinch the skin between your fingers. If the skin rolls back into place immediately this is an indication that's it's hydrated. if the skin stays in that position or it takes awhile to roll back then your snake is dehydrated. I good soaking in a tub of nuke warm water will do wonders for a dehydrated snake. Depending on the size of your snake, make sure the water is not deep enough for him to submerge his head past the nostrils. I'd say 1/4 to 1/2" of water is enough (even less for smaller.) As Greg Stephens once said "These snakes are more stupid than you think" They can actually drown them selves. Just make sure you're around to monitor your snake if you do soak it.

Good luck and keep us updated on your critter.

http://www.iherp.com/btoia28

Chondros for life!

briantoia

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Posts: 2373

(02/20/12 11:30:15)

BTW I noticed from your last pic that you're using some type or natural substrate. IMO this stuff is not safe for Chondros. Especially males that love to dig around at night. This stuff can get compacted in it's heat pits and mouth and if it goes unnoticed it will cause problems. A friend of mine just lost a female partially because she got pieces of moss stuck in her mouth after laying eggs in the moss. This caused a serious RI infection that she never recovered from.

People do use this stuff and never had issues but they are also taking unnecessary risks. Lots of us use plain old newspaper for substrate. I know it's not the best looking but it's easy to clean up, it's cheap, and most of all it's safe for the animals. There are also other options out there that look more natural. Anyways just offering some suggestions. If I were you I would set this animal up in the most sterile environment possible at least until you get that fecal run and make sure it has a clean bill of health.

http://www.iherp.com/btoia28

Chondros for life!

uhhlxxiss

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Posts: 6

(02/20/12 15:59:44)

briantoia wrote:
BTW I noticed from your last pic that you're using some type or natural substrate. IMO this stuff is not safe for Chondros. Especially males that love to dig around at night. This stuff can get compacted in it's heat pits and mouth and if it goes unnoticed it will cause problems. A friend of mine just lost a female partially because she got pieces of moss stuck in her mouth after laying eggs in the moss. This caused a serious RI infection that she never recovered from.

People do use this stuff and never had issues but they are also taking unnecessary risks. Lots of us use plain old newspaper for substrate. I know it's not the best looking but it's easy to clean up, it's cheap, and most of all it's safe for the animals. There are also other options out there that look more natural. Anyways just offering some suggestions. If I were you I would set this animal up in the most sterile environment possible at least until you get that fecal run and make sure it has a clean bill of health.

Awesome. Thanks for the suggestion! I'll definitely consider switching. I'm in Albany, NY if you know of any really good reptile vets around here.

Thanks again!

uhhlxxiss

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Posts: 9

(02/21/12 06:58:57)

So the little one hadn't moved much (to my knowledge) from the corner in two days. But I did notice that she had a nice little mouthful of eco earth. We moved her into a smaller tank and will be using newspaper from now on instead. Once we moved her, she went up and coiled on her perch. She also drank a little water. I'd really like to get her back into the larger tank, but I won't if that's what was making her so uncomfortable. I can use a 10gal, 20long, or 55gal. Which would be best for her right now?

kylemillsap

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