So I've got a dilemma. It's about caging.
Last year I got a bunch of Vision 222's and Exo's on a "Fire Sale" deal. They are awesome, except for the fact that my basement gets to be 55
degrees in the winter. Underneath heat tape and the lack of insulation in these cages has not been enough to be able to "dial in" a temp where I
want. Daytimes would sometimes get only to the high 70s. Futzing around, putting a big heat source in the room would get me to 82. It sucked. I think this is
part of the reason I had a lot of females strike out this year.
So I need to get this taken care of this summer. The biggest problems I face are Time versus Money versus Quality.
I'm not opposed to building. Honestly, I think this might be my best option. I don't like the idea of having super-heavy melamine cages, but I can get
over that. I definitely don't believe the visions would work unless they had Pro products panels in them. And with the quantity I'm looking at,
It's unrealistic of me to think I can afford to spend $5000 on heating.
So here's where I'm at: I'd like to build approximately 8-10 "Breeder/Female" cages, 10-15 Male Cages, 20 subadult, and maybe 20 yearling
size. Still hammering out actual sizes.
I'm not opposed to buying PVC/Plastic/Whatever cages, but when they are $200-300 a pop, times 40 ... nossir. Also, I'm not sure how much better next
year will be in the basement here, but I'm going along the "I have to raise the temperature 30 or so degrees".
Melamine (1/2") with glass or plexi doors I think will be my best "insulator", unless I do a "rack" (like a baby rack) that can
enclose the heat and retain some sort of thermal mass. And put the cages inside the big "insulated" environment. Exos may work in that environment
with Desert Rays .. no idea.
I'm just throwing out some ideas here, I am leaning toward "I'm gonna have to build", but between the number of cages, the lights, the heat,
the t-stats... obviously an expensive undertaking. I do have a good amount of coin set aside to do this, but if it were the $300 per cage thing, Pro Product
panel, this whole thing would end up being a $25000 project, which I'm not up for.
I'm not really in tune with the cage market and who is doing what, which makes this all the more difficult.
So, if anyone has any ideas, recommendations, suggestions, comments, whatever, I'd love to hear it. Completely redoing all of my caging is something
I'm forced to do. I just don't know where to start, and for Ohio, well.. summer's almost over. Hehe.
aaron
                        
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All this talk about caging [I have to change caging this year]
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 aaron florian |
All this talk about caging [I have to change caging this year] |
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Posts: 2678 (05/10/08 09:57:17)
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230 (c)(1) ... it's what's for breakfast |
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Kim Heller |
Well.... | |||
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Posts: 1831 (05/10/08 10:23:02)
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Do you really have all that time available to build the cages yourself? If you do, and have the tools/workspace available, go for it. To me, what Jim @ PVC
cages is very reasonable (especially for someone like me that cannot build my own).
http://www.pvccages.com/id149.htm 36x24x24 Complete Cage Shipped disassembled. $355.00 I have 6 of those, plus two racks from him, and they are great enclosures. I don't love my Visions, and if i could, I'd replace everything with Jim's enclosures. Kim "Wow, that is a hot snake, I would definitely hit that."
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greg stephens2 |
HMMMMMMM! | |||
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Posts: 1045 (05/10/08 10:54:18)
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Wouldn't it me more cost effective to keep the cages you have and build a room for them that would be more thermally efficient?
Lets say you buy 30 cages at $250 ready to roll with heat lights and perches. That's 7,500 with out thermostats, for 5k you can finish an insulated room in your basement with it tied into your house HVAC. If you insulate the room correctly I think your problem will be over. In fact lets be honest here if you are going to heat with RHP's of any sort, any cage will struggle to maintain proper temps in a 55 degree area. You may be able to get a basking area of 85 but you cool end will be closer to 3 to 5 degrees above the air temp out side the cage. I see you getting the most bang for your buck finishing in a well insulated area and creating a room dynamic that allows you to get the cage temps you are looking for. Just my 2 cents! If you need help designing a room you know my number! DB II out!
Greg Stephens
gstephens_1@clearviewcatv.net I lost JB's watch!!!!! I have big steel pole envy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was told ,"By the way.........plastic is plastic - I've been in the cancer field for 20+ years now and I've never had a patient get cancer from burning plastic!" I had to ask my self what was this guy thinking!! 
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milmoejoe |
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Posts: 52 (05/10/08 11:08:12) |
Aaron, a friend of mine once referred me to a cabinet maker to get cages done. He fit a series of "cabinet cages" against a wall in his home, and it
was quite beautiful.
I have yet to settle in a house, so I haven't looked into the option. But, he said he ended up paying about 1/2 the cost of commercial caging. Oh, and if you decide to go with the PVC cages, I hear you can accessorize them with some nice burnt perches 
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milmoejoe |
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Posts: 53 (05/10/08 11:09:50) |
I personally am looking at the black HDPE 24x24x24's from repti-racks. But, that unfortunately is the $400 / each "deal".
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chondro1.chondroforum |
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Posts: 6 (05/10/08 11:19:44) |
 Aaron,
I made 6 cages this year out of melamine, my basement also gets cold but I have no problems keeping the cages heated at the desired temps. 3 cages are 24 inch, and 3 are 32 inch. Best part of all they only cost me about $50 each to build, including having the glass cut. I got my melamine from our local Home Depot it comes in 2 by 4 sheets, and I even had them cut it to size.just my 2 cents. Mike |
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Ben Team |
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Posts: 946 (05/10/08 11:39:31)
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2 thoughts-
1) If you are going to heat individual cages, use retro-fitted rubbermaids and heat with lamps. Very affordable, 'disposable', easy to tweak, etc. 2) With that number of animals, it is far cheaper to heat the room (according to my super top secret sources). |
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aaron florian |
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Posts: 2679 (10/11/26 12:10:45)
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Thanks for all the comments so far, please keep em coming.
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230 (c)(1) ... it's what's for breakfast |
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milmoejoe |
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Posts: 54 (05/10/08 13:27:58) |
Hi aaron,
you might also want to look into something like this: http://moreliaviridis.yuku.com/topic/593 vision rack with acrylic tubs. I personally HATE racks, but still find that to be a fairly sexy setup. Whatever the rack costs + $50 per acrylic tub |
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aaron florian |
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Posts: 2680 (05/10/08 13:43:07)
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Joe, they look cool, but wonder about heat loss ... I've never done acrylic, I'd imagine it depends on the thickness ....
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MegF42 |
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Posts: 1895 (05/10/08 14:53:58)
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I have melamine cages built ala Greg Maxwell style. I love them. I heat them with Desert heat panels which are much cheaper than the pro panels and they do a
fantastic job. No problems keeping the temperatures where I want it.
5.5~Cornsnakes
3.4.1~Green Tree Pythons 2.1.2~Amazon tree boas 1.0~California Kingsnake Assorted: Horses, dogs, and cats www.Franclycac.com |
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whitehillreptile |
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Posts: 17 (05/10/08 15:38:37) |
anyone have any malamine cages that have been in use for quite a while? every one that i have had in the past would eventually start swelling. this is probably
more of a "manufacturers" (that being me) defect than anything else. How did you seal yours Kim?? silicone??
Tre' Hill
"But if you tame me, then we shall need each other. To me, you will be unique in all the world. To you, I shall be unique in all the world...You are
responsible, forever, for what you have tamed." -- Antoine de Saint-Exupery --
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PITDRAGON |
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Posts: 279 (05/10/08 17:04:27)
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Aaron melamine will eventually fall apart due to humidity. Bite the bullet and go pvccages.com. I figured with my time and material to build maxwell cages
,the sharphorn cages only cost me 25-50 bucks more and will last forever. Just my 2 cents
Joey |
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Amedachan |
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Posts: 60 (05/10/08 17:28:44)
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Joey, I agree 100%. I also looked into building my own cages, but I'm now on my 3rd order from Jim and I couldn't be more pleased with his cages.
They are super lightweight, easy to maintain, and are holding up beautifully. My animals really seem to like them and I do too.
Aaron, you can also order them minus the heat panel and light, if you wanted to save a few bucks and explore cheaper heating methods to install yourself. I always order my cages empty and put in the extra sweat equity to install my own lights, heat panels, and perches. In my case, it probably comes out roughly the same in the end, but I get to customize the setup exactly to my needs. Jim can also make custom sizes as well, and in my experience are extremely reasonable. In any case, I really do think that insulating the basement is going to give you the most bang for your buck, but if that's not possible I'd really look into Jim's caging. For the quality and freaking FAST turnaround time (all my orders have been on my doorstep within 1 week of ordering!), it can't be beat. |
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aaron florian |
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Posts: 2682 (05/10/08 17:30:52)
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I've done uncoated melamine (no con-tact paper), have had them for 5 years, and they are still in great shape. The actual "box" part of it is
easy enough to rebuild for $15 if it comes time, it's the acoutrements that end up costin... :/
I sealed mine with silicone in the joints, no problems yet. But they're only 5 years old. Sharphorn cages are going to cost a lot more than 50 a pop more. Not out of the running, but just mathemagically speaking (I'm a mathemagician).
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230 (c)(1) ... it's what's for breakfast |
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chondro1.chondroforum |
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Posts: 7 (05/10/08 18:04:53) |
Aaron,
I'll take some close ups in the morning, The framing around the glass is just plastic glass track, that's it nothing more, I got my glass cut at a local glass supply house It's 1/8 inch glass panels, and the most expensive part of making the cage ($21.00) Home Depot has glass and cutters and all, but I figure At $50.00 per cage, that works as well as anything I've seen Im well ahead of the game. Mike |
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Gary Schiavino |
New Cages | |||
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Posts: 821 (05/10/08 18:07:21)
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Aaron,
Go with old fish tanks. (aka "Leakers") They're inexpensive, you can seek your animal from every side, and screen tops make it easy to run a "Hot Rock" cord. Now please stop bothering the community with your inane questions. Gary |
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aaron florian |
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Posts: 2683 (05/10/08 18:08:29)
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I am *so* glad you chimed in Gary.
Thanks for your wonderful insight. Now can you help me with my transmission?
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230 (c)(1) ... it's what's for breakfast |
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Gary Schiavino |
Paging Mr. Herman .... | |||
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Posts: 822 (05/10/08 18:39:01)
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Can one assume that by "transmission" you mean "pedals"?
Last Edited By: Gary Schiavino
05/10/08 19:18:59.
Edited 2 times.
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Steve Butner |
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Posts: 91 (05/10/08 21:10:51)
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hey Arron- not knowing the size of your basement but have you considerd partitioning (sp) a portion of it? with the correct footage the enclosures help keep
the room warm, and by adding proper ventalation you can cycle without problems due to the basement temps. just a thought.
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BuddyBuscemi |
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Posts: 371 (05/11/08 03:47:35)
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Aaron
I feel your chill, although not quite like living in a sub artic zone near a large frozen lake. Take a look at this set up, the bottom photo shows the entire wall. You could do this with a heat panel in the larger cages, and use heat tape along the bottom or back for supplemental heat in the winter, or in your case 10 months of the year. If I were to do this setup I would lessen the height to 18" or less, I would use racks that have a wood base, cover the sides and back with blue foam insulation, and have removeable plexi / acrylic panels on the front of the rack. http://www.thecarnivorousorchid.com/i/enclosuretips.htm Stay Warm!! Buddy B |
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