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Rico Walder

Bad news... and some good.

Lead

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Posts: 529

(05/01/08 15:22:08)

MVFonator

Hey Everyone,

Yesterday had it's ups and downs. First the good news.... The project Chris Haight and I had going on this year produced some outstanding little hatchlings. Not as many as we had hopes for but it's better than nothing. Here is a picture of the sire, I'll let Chris post pictures of the dam.

Next, the bad news! This was my Ole' Yeller x Big Bird girl. She's been breeding with a PNG x Lemon male that Greg Schroeder produced in a joint project in 2005. As you can see by the images it appears as though she somehow produced yolk right into her coelomic cavity. She had been doing well with no signs of illness and went down in a matter of hours. It was weird how there were two eggs in one oviduct in the process of being shelled. Anyone ever seen or heard of this?

Somehow I think this is Rolando's fault. Just kidding.Rolo ;-)

Rico Walder
Signal Herpetoculture
www.signalherp.com
Chondro Coalition
www.chondrocoalition.com

Damon Theis

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Posts: 485

(05/01/08 15:30:26)

MVFonator

Sorry Rico. That sucks. On a lighter note, that male is unreal. Love everything about him.

Degei Husbandry Database

Chris Dunlap

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Posts: 720

(05/01/08 15:51:24)

Forum Ultra Chondro!

Rico I'm sorry to hear about your loss.

Congrats to you and Chris on those hatchlings... I know they are going to be awesome.

Chris Dunlap
Paragon Reptiles

HecTorBar305

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Posts: 44

(05/01/08 16:15:50)

Man!!! That sucks big time. I'm so sorry about your loss. I hope the hatchlings make up for your lost.

Frols

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Posts: 184

(05/01/08 16:24:16)

Forum Chondro Junkie

Rico...that is the most ironic thing that has ever happened to me!

You have my deepest condolences.

Rolo

Julian Garcia

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Posts: 1514

(05/01/08 16:31:50)

Forum super duper Ultra Chondro!

Wow... man, thats just awful... awful awful awful.

I'm really glad that pairing worked with you and Chris. That females is amazing..

Congrats and sorry

Julian Garcia
Chondro's Exquisite
www.juliangarcia.com
chondro@gmail.com

MegF42

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Posts: 1871

(05/01/08 16:34:00)

Forum super duper Ultra Chondro!

That's too bad. Are you certain that the yolk wasn't due to handling or while opening the cavity? It's really odd. I'll look thru my surgical books and see if there's any mention of such a thing.. Condolences...she was a beauty.

5.5~Cornsnakes
3.4.1~Green Tree Pythons
2.1.2~Amazon tree boas
1.0~California Kingsnake
Assorted: Horses, dogs, and cats
www.Franclycac.com

Paul August

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Posts: 797

(05/01/08 16:43:20)

Forum Ultra Chondro!

Sorry for the bad news. I can see, even in death that she was amazing. Was the other oviduct punctured? A blown egg should throw yolk into the oviduct. But she has Yolk in the body cavity? I'm just thinking there has to be a blowout between the reproductive tract and the body cavity.

Paul August

Cathy Maynard

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Posts: 1654

(05/01/08 16:47:10)

Oh that really sucks Rico, she was such a beautiful snake, so sorry for your loss. Very interesting necropsy pics though I didn't realize that the yolks were as "liquid" as they appear there, I wonder what happened too. Thank you for sharing.

On the good note, congrats on the hatchlings!!

aaron florian

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Posts: 2649

(05/01/08 17:01:42)

Forum super duper Ultra Chondro!

Wow. That male is beautiful. Sorry about the loss of your girlie.

===============================================================
230 (c)(1) ... it's what's for breakfast

davidnj

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Posts: 924

(05/01/08 18:40:06)

Forum Ultra Chondro!

That's a shame. I can't imagine being able to detach myself from an animal to the degree of being able to cut them open like that. I guess with the number of hours and animals you've got under your belt it enables you to approach things a bit differently than the small time hobbyist like myself. Good luck with the babies. That male could be on a poster for everything needed to turn snake enthusiasts into chondro addicts.

David

joemerlin

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Posts: 72

(05/01/08 18:44:29)

that male is insane..
:_(
i am very sorry to hear about your girl.
Namaste
Joe

"No matter how little money and how few possesions you own, having a dog makes you rich."
- Louis Sabin

Andrew A1

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Posts: 966

(05/01/08 18:48:26)

Forum Ultra Chondro!

Oh man Rico - that really sucks big time. Really sorry to see that. She was incredible looking. Hope you get some answers.

On the flip side - best of luck with those neos with Chris. What a fantastic pairing (I have to say it here because Chris bamboozled me on the other post).

That male is incredible.

Andrew

geckos70

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Posts: 1064

(05/01/08 18:52:39)

Forum Ultra Chondro!

Congrads to both you and Chris, Rico. Sorry about that girl...she was probably one of my favorite animals in your collection. As far as the necropsy goes, that is the first time I have ever seen anything like that. If it is ok with you, I would like to show the photos to a pathologist friend to see if he can offer a plausible explanation.

Michael

Kirk Mills

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Posts: 564

(05/01/08 19:57:06)

MVFonator

Rico, last year when I was breeding my female canary she was well Friday night and on Saturday morning started looking like something was not right and within a few hours was died… It happen so damn fast I was dumfounded… The necropsy of my canary looked much like your female… I lost the photo on a hard drive that crash a few month back.. I never could find out what happen… I'm so sorry for your loss…

Kirk

Jeff Godbold

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Posts: 332

(05/02/08 02:35:12)

MVFonator

Wow Rico,

Sorry to hear about that...she was a reall "looker". Congrats on the mite-phase though...those things are HOT!

Jeff Godbold
JAG Arboreals
jagreptile@yahoo.com

Kenneth Diehl

Wow.... Rico

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Posts: 607

(05/02/08 04:04:52)

Forum Ultra Chondro!

Sorry to hear about your loss, at least you have some good news to share. On the topic of the yolk development...can it actually happen? Again..sorry.

Ken Diehl
San Antonio

Kim Heller

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Posts: 1786

(05/02/08 05:16:13)

Forum super duper Ultra Chondro!

Heartache and happiness in the same post. These amazing animals certainly do have amazing ups and devastating downs. Thank you for sharing this with us, Rico.

"Wow, that is a hot snake, I would definitely hit that."

John Romano

MarlboroMan

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Posts: 111

(05/02/08 05:28:48)

MVF Post Breeder

Sorry about your girl Rico. At least there was some good news though right?

Jon Deason

"Did you just say I am a reverberating homo?" - John Romano

Sony Raju

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Posts: 996

(05/02/08 06:29:48)

Forum Ultra Chondro!

im sorry to hear about ur loss rico.

Rico Walder

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Posts: 530

(05/02/08 06:32:19)

MVFonator

Thanks everyone,

There certainly are ups and downs working with these things.

Meg, I'm fairly certain that there was no trauma or necropsy error involved with this girls demise. She hadn't been handled in a long time so unless the male (he's tiny compared to her) gripped too tight while copulating I doubt any damage was done. The left ovary appeared to be in good shape but the right on the other hand was odd looking.... almost as though there were sections of tissue missing. My guess is that the yolk producing mechanism was discharging yolk into the coelomic cavity. Apparently this is somewhat common in egg laying species. Strange though after all these years breeding chondros that it's never happened before. Now this year it seems two females have suffered the same fate. The dam to 05188 died the same way while I was out of town earlier this year.

Kirk, that's really interesting that your canary died the same way.

Thanks again everyone for all the kind words. This was certainly one of my favorite girls and I was really looking forward to seeing offspring from her.

Rico Walder
Signal Herpetoculture
www.signalherp.com
Chondro Coalition
www.chondrocoalition.com

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