In the next few months I was going to purchase my first Chondro ( I've been in love with these since I seen my first Biak at the central florida show around 95 or 96 that was owned by Trooper Walsh ) and I was wondering if it was better to purchase a papered chondro or if it doesn't really matter ? I would like to purchase a few eventually but since I was just getting back into keeping snakes again I was looking for any advice that anyone could give me about being better in the long run to purchase papered chondros.
                        
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Papered or unpapered ?
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 ChondroCumpulsive |
Papered or unpapered ? |
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Posts: 1 (04/30/08 13:04:05) |
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Andrew A1 |
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Posts: 958 (04/30/08 14:12:45)
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Hi CC, the answer completely depends on what you want to do with them, spend on them, looks you want, etc.
With unpapered chondros, you are "typically" looking at imports, farm bred, locale types, or simply animals with lost paperwork. If you want a "pet" or are on a serious budget, you may wind up on the route. With "papered" chondros - lets call them documented and with pedigrees and bloodlines, you will simply be getting a "higher" end animal.......in most cases. Most people who breed for specific bloodlines keep very good records and these are necessary for selling since buyers who are looking for specific traits or possibilities want to know the history on a snake. The way you go about this is not to choose documented or undocumented, but really to set a budget and decide what look are you after. Whether you want a "designer" animal or a locale type. The documentation is simply something that helps you be sure you are getting what you are paying for. Hope this helps.........................Andrew |
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aaron florian |
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Posts: 2643 (04/30/08 14:25:37)
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Well that all depends on how you define "Papered". Are captive bred animals I produced Papered?
The Licorice x Cyclops pairing is not "Papered". My Minnie x Calico is "Half-Papered". I would recommend that for your first chondro, you go with a reputable breeder, ESPECIALLY if you ae getting a neonate. These things roll for no apparently reason sometimes, and with a normal shop, you'll have little recourse. One of my favorite drop dead stories is from my first clutch. I had had them for three months, they were eating great, and had sold one. Two weeks later, I had an animal (ab0502) simply roll on me. Had I sold that to the new owner (who bought ab0507), I would have been like, "this guy killed it, because all of mine are still alive". That was a good lesson for me to learn. Selling babies, although most of the time it turns out fine, is still a bit of a risk. A pet store or broker may not have your back. So, back to the question, I don't believe paper matters as much as captive bred ... but like andrew said, it's got more to do with what your goals are. Do you want to have a killer collection of a few documented chondros, or looking for your first just to cut your teeth, looking for designer, or type, ...? I'd recommend getting something at least six months old, if not a year or two, to know it's established and you have your best shot at learning the tricks of these horrible yet wonderful animals. There are a lot of good deals out there on yearlings, you'll miss the change, but it won't be your last chondro. That's pretty much a guarantee. HTH, jm2c
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230 (c)(1) ... it's what's for breakfast |
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milmoejoe |
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Posts: 31 (04/30/08 14:26:21) |
I was recently in a similar situation as yourself, might be able to help you from a buyer returning to the hobby. I've been exposed to meticulous
recordkeeping at zoos, kept a wide variety of personal herps and used to trade quite a bit. I've been burned several times, especially after starting to
deal on kingsnake in 2004. It's been awhile, and i'm sure some things have changed, but I think quality still shines through pretty easily.
I think you will first notice a difference in recordkeeping vs. genetic pedigree. I personally would never determine a sale strictly based upon the presence or lack of either or those. Obviously best to either know the breeder or visit the facility in advance. No guessing on origination, sanitation of the enclosures, health history, etc. Having very little free time, I personally find the daily recordkeeping to be a bit overkill. On the other hand, it can be critical for zoos, and might make your life easier if you maintain a large collection (can't keep track of everything or sharing maintenance responsibilities). Genetic pedigree and lineage obviously holds its value for breeding and resale, but less essential for rookies like us! My solution: good first purchase= CB or farmed import + no pedigree from a reputable dealer. Then once you know you can do run through a generational cycle without killing them, then think about "upgrading". Just my $0.02! |
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Shiloh Hawkesworth |
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Posts: 1632 (04/30/08 14:33:59)
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aaron florian wrote: It is my personal feeling that if you can say this is mom and this is dad the animal is "Papered"... Why do you say those two pairings are not
papered? The paper trail only goes back to the parents, but thats still papered....
Shiloh Hawkesworth
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davidnj |
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Posts: 920 (04/30/08 21:28:10)
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I think Shiloh has a decent point. Maybe i'm biased.
David
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aaron florian |
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Posts: 2644 (04/30/08 22:03:03)
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Andrews definition above on papered: "With "papered" chondros - lets call them documented and with pedigrees and bloodlines, you will simply
be getting a "higher" end animal"
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230 (c)(1) ... it's what's for breakfast |
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Shiloh Hawkesworth |
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Posts: 1634 (04/30/08 22:09:47)
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To clarify lets call it a birth certificate...
 No family tree...
Shiloh Hawkesworth
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davidnj |
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Posts: 922 (04/30/08 22:11:14)
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I think Aaron has a point. But maybe i'm """"""biased"""""".
David
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Shiloh Hawkesworth |
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Posts: 1635 (04/30/08 22:23:10)
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Maybe I am biased but why are we trying to change a dictionary word?
Pedigree Definition
There is a difference between a pedigree and an established bloodline. Stop watering down the definition.
Shiloh Hawkesworth
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milmoejoe |
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Posts: 32 (05/01/08 03:22:10) |
Sorry! I was taking a cut and dry approach to the use of the word pedigree-
I know that "pedigree" often assumes a series of noble characteristics (esp with the furry animal trade). Genetic Pedigree- A simplified diagram of a family's genealogy that shows family members' relationships to each other and how a particular trait or disease has been inherited. Any quick web search for pedigree yields happy healthy animals But hey, look at my genetic pedigree...genetic traits inherited: fat, blind, allergies, varicose veins, heart disease, etc! Fortunately, there aren't too many bad traits to watch out for in the chondro world! =) |
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aaron florian |
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Posts: 2645 (05/01/08 12:01:59)
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I think this thread has become a parody of itself.
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230 (c)(1) ... it's what's for breakfast |
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MegF42 |
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Posts: 1873 (05/01/08 16:43:21)
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I like parodies...or pedigrees...or ....beer for that matter. I don't give a darn diddly as long as I have feed/shed records and some sort of idea that
they aren't farmed or imported. Is it a nice animal? Is it pretty....is it what I'm looking for....If yes....then it's good.
5.5~Cornsnakes
3.4.1~Green Tree Pythons 2.1.2~Amazon tree boas 1.0~California Kingsnake Assorted: Horses, dogs, and cats www.Franclycac.com |
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