18 x 18 x 24 cages to breeding success?

Re: 18 x 18 x 24 cages to breeding success?

feeds@yuku.com (Ben Team) — Tue, 20 May 2008 06:37:37 GMT

milmoejoe wrote:
1) Ben, I agree some of those tests can be off the wall, but "properly designed" is subjective and left at the discretion of the tester.

2) I think many of us would be limited to one or no chondros if we decided to space everything out to that highest "stress free" percentile.

#1 - I completely agree...I just misspoke. Perhaps I should have said complex...

Re: 18 x 18 x 24 cages to breeding success?

feeds@yuku.com (Jeff Godbold) — Tue, 20 May 2008 02:29:16 GMT

You can get them at Big Apple or Reptile Depot

Re: 18 x 18 x 24 cages to breeding success?

feeds@yuku.com (Rapture) — Mon, 19 May 2008 22:21:51 GMT

Here's a link to the dual tops.

http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/dual_top.php

Re: 18 x 18 x 24 cages to breeding success?

feeds@yuku.com (milmoejoe) — Mon, 19 May 2008 20:35:00 GMT

I couldn't find the "dual tops" anywhere...even web searches were only in european languages!

I have the compact hood and it is very nice.

Re: 18 x 18 x 24 cages to breeding success?

feeds@yuku.com (NathanielSmith) — Mon, 19 May 2008 20:08:29 GMT

Jeff, I went with two of the "compact tops" for each exoterra enclosure, which completely covers the top screen portion. This in turn helped to solve my humidity problems, as well as providing (IMO) aesthetically pleasing, and functional light fixtures. My lighting set up for each enclosure consists of fluorescent lighting (26W ReptiGlo) in one "compact top" for my day/night cycles, and black incandescant bulbs (25W NightGlo) through a thermostat for basking heat in the...

Re: 18 x 18 x 24 cages to breeding success?

feeds@yuku.com (Jeff Godbold) — Mon, 19 May 2008 17:43:55 GMT

Nathan,

Did you go with the "dual tops" or the "compact tops"? I'm really considering these...

Re: 18 x 18 x 24 cages to breeding success?

feeds@yuku.com (milmoejoe) — Mon, 19 May 2008 12:52:55 GMT

I don't know too much about it, but I think we're essentially domesticating these animals here. So (most) things like your habitat usage, foraging patterns, dispersal and migration are all out the window. Basic requirements were met some time ago and we have been optimizing for production since.

Ben, I agree some of those tests can be off the wall, but "properly designed" is subjective and left at the discretion of the tester. I think many of us would be limited to...

Re: 18 x 18 x 24 cages to breeding success?

feeds@yuku.com (cleve360) — Mon, 19 May 2008 10:09:04 GMT

I agree 100% with Ben on this one.

We keep neonates in a tiny, dark, plastic box for the first 6 months of its life, so it's understandable that many will have an adjustment problem when moved to a larger, empty cage. That's true even with the complex environment of a natural viv; because they have essentially grown up in a sensory deprivation chamber, the sudden onslaught of sensory data could be overwhelming.

Millions of years of evolution has resulted in a...

Re: 18 x 18 x 24 cages to breeding success?

feeds@yuku.com (Ben Team) — Mon, 19 May 2008 08:34:03 GMT

I would love to see true peer reviewed published research showing elevated cortisol levels in properly designed big cages.

I think that the notion that 'large cages' make snakes feel insecure is laughable at best, intellectually dishonest at worst. Yes, if you stick a chondro in a bare walk in closet with a single perch in the middle it is going to feel insecure. Add plenty of cover and visual barriers to the enclosure and you have a different story......

Re: 18 x 18 x 24 cages to breeding success?

feeds@yuku.com (milmoejoe) — Mon, 19 May 2008 08:04:16 GMT

Absolutely, take a look at the rest of the herp industry!

I know research has been done on other snakes measuring cortisol levels (stress indicator) in relation to enclosure size.

I may be wrong, but i'm pretty sure that the levels were affected by a number of other things before reduced cage size. In fact, many did horrible in large open ended enclosures (why, I don't know- the wild is pretty open)

So, thats why the racks and tubs fly pretty well.

Re: 18 x 18 x 24 cages to breeding success?

feeds@yuku.com (Ben Team) — Mon, 19 May 2008 06:37:40 GMT

I am preparing to duck as I write this. I just have to at least throw my argument out there...

Does the smallest box we can cram a snake into and have them breed = success?

If I can get chondros to breed in a sock is that how we should start keeping them?

I understand that a lot of chondro keepers far smarter than I keep chondros in small cages, and I have seen a few very successful operations in person that utilized small cages. However, I can't get by the...

Re: 18 x 18 x 24 cages to breeding success?

feeds@yuku.com (NathanielSmith) — Mon, 19 May 2008 06:33:02 GMT

Jeff, I currently have two 18 x 18 x 24 exos, and I have utilized the dual hoods from exo terra for fluroescent lighting & supplemental heat. I've found that they solve all of my humidity issues with the exo terra enclosures as well, as I am able to maintain the proper fluxuation with a misting every other day. For me, the hoods were a much simpler solution than pursuing any modifications to the cages. And Mike, as far as breeding success in the exo terras, I have not...

Re: 18 x 18 x 24 cages to breeding success?

feeds@yuku.com (Sony Raju) — Mon, 19 May 2008 04:57:25 GMT

wow, those are kinda small side. thats great that it works, and i could fit way more cages in my snake room.....hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....thanks guys.

Re: 18 x 18 x 24 cages to breeding success?

feeds@yuku.com (SCZ Mike) — Sun, 18 May 2008 18:03:16 GMT

im going through a friend in derby, ks who has a reptile pet store (tails and scales) and im going to get them at cost, i would love to get the 34x18x24 inches. that would be great!

Re: 18 x 18 x 24 cages to breeding success?

feeds@yuku.com (Jeff Godbold) — Sun, 18 May 2008 08:46:51 GMT

I've seen the 24 X 18 X 18 and the 36 X 18 X 18 in person. They look awesome. They're actually out now. We have a local reptile store thats carrying them but he's marked them up a ton. I would call Reptile dDepot, I'm sure they can get them in and their prices are the cheapest. I'm thinking of doing the same. With a savings of around 100.00 per cage...it's defanantly got me thinking.

And with all the talk about modifying their exo terras, I decided to look up...

Re: 18 x 18 x 24 cages to breeding success?

feeds@yuku.com (whitehillreptile) — Sun, 18 May 2008 05:34:11 GMT

they are also coming out with a 36X18X18 and a 34X18X24 (LxWxH) either at the end of this month or at least by middle of next month. with the 34X18X24 you could fit them three high on the metal 36" bakers rack. i dont know how soon you need them, but it may be worth the wait.

FWIW
Tre' Hill

Re: 18 x 18 x 24 cages to breeding success?

feeds@yuku.com (SCZ Mike) — Sun, 18 May 2008 05:05:17 GMT

thanks for the all feed back, i need cages in a hurry and dont have time to build any yet. i would prefer bigger cages, and i guess exo-terra is making a 24x 18x 24x inch that im going to try to get instead, a liitle more room. i wont keep m chondros, except small adult males in them forever. they would be used for a couple (2-4 years) until i can afford to get pvc cages.

thanks again!

Re: 18 x 18 x 24 cages to breeding success?

feeds@yuku.com (Mike Bair) — Sat, 17 May 2008 21:55:23 GMT

I use 24x18x18 cages with success. Theres more than one way to skin a cat. Rob Worrell used to breed everything in glass cages. Use what you want, but make it big enough that the two snakes you are breeding will not get stressed by it. Obviously an overly obese 2k gram female would not really work too well especially if you are using a 1k gram male and trying to put them into something smaller than a 24x18x18. They just would not have room to move around.

Re: 18 x 18 x 24 cages to breeding success?

feeds@yuku.com (aaron florian) — Sat, 17 May 2008 21:28:26 GMT

Let me be the first to say that Size Doesn't Matter. *cough*

I had excellent results in tubs which were 24 long x 16 high x 16 wide. Actually, the most clutches I've thrown, all of them were in that size.

It looks cramped, but I had good success. I moved up to the Vision 222s, and had no luck, but I attribute that to temperature and humidity factors.

I don't *prefer* the smaller enclosures, but they seem to work just as well as the breeder maxwell...

Re: 18 x 18 x 24 cages to breeding success?

feeds@yuku.com (Jeff Godbold) — Sat, 17 May 2008 20:11:13 GMT

Steve Roebuck has produced two clutchesin Exo's (18' cubes). One of which was from his 9545 TW male this year.

Another is Rico Walder. He keeps (or did until recently) his entire collection in home made glass cages. I believe they are more tall than wide also.

18 x 18 x 24 cages to breeding success?

feeds@yuku.com (SCZ Mike) — Sat, 17 May 2008 17:06:21 GMT

i was just wondering the percentage of breeding to the exoterra 18 x 18 x 24 inch cages? for anyone that keeps there snakes in these cages and has breed and/or tried to breed their snakes please let me know.