Easy sex - an interesting bit of snake biotechnology

Re: Easy sex - an interesting bit of snake biotechnology

feeds@yuku.com (bushman) — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 09:09:28 GMT

I wonder if we can send samples overseas?? If you guys beat us to it, we may have too!

Re: Easy sex - an interesting bit of snake biotechnology

feeds@yuku.com (thescottduncan) — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 07:35:07 GMT

My understanding from my vet is that this service is available for birds (using feathers). The vet can send the sample and relay the results to you. I'm not sure to what extent you can bypass the vet. I don't own a bird so I have no idea how much it costs, and I didn't ask. Bird people know, you may want to connect with them for ideas.

Re: Easy sex - an interesting bit of snake biotechnology

feeds@yuku.com (bushman) — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 11:20:22 GMT

...Also, if you publish any findings please let us know.

Re: Easy sex - an interesting bit of snake biotechnology

feeds@yuku.com (bushman) — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 10:37:30 GMT

I wish you all the best from down under. A similar project is underway in Melbourne, although there have been set-backs with contamination of samples.
Please let us know if we can help in any way and keep us updated on your progress. Perhaps a collaborative effort would increase chances of success.

Re: Easy sex - an interesting bit of snake biotechnology

feeds@yuku.com (tylersquare) — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 23:11:41 GMT

Nick Metherd wrote:
To answer your question Tyler, to the best of my knowledge and again it's been ten yrs and I'm not in a science field now, you would not actually have to map the entire genome in order to discover which marker is responsible for albinism or any other trait that is only controlled by one allele. You don't have to know what the allele does necessarily, just that it doesn't have anything to do...

Re: Easy sex - an interesting bit of snake biotechnology

feeds@yuku.com (tylersquare) — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 22:48:31 GMT

Christopher Feenan wrote:
Yeah, I know what double blind means, and no, it doesn't mean all possible bias has been removed.

when I say all possible bias, I mean the bias which is possible to remove. And yes, it does. look up any definition you want... the sole reason for using a double blind method is to eliminate the human bias. It doesn't apply to this research simply because there is no control...

Re: Easy sex - an interesting bit of snake biotechnology

feeds@yuku.com (Christopher Feenan) — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 06:10:03 GMT

Steve - I am glad that you are interested in solving a vey difficult genetic puzzle - Good luck !

My question to you was not "because I have no life ", and it wasn't a critique. It was the sort of straightforward question that practising scientists have to answer. An appropriate question, given your inappropriate claim.

Attacking me for asking it isn't professional - leave emotion out of it, and be prepared to defend your claims. No, your study...

Re: Easy sex - an interesting bit of snake biotechnology

feeds@yuku.com (5rings) — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 17:46:07 GMT

I rarely post on forums because some people have no lives of their own and spend all of your free time critiquing everyone else. Some of you obviously got distracted and missed the salient point to my post. Did you find any dangling participles? I can't stand those. Perhaps I misspoke when I said "double-blind". It certainly was not the point to my post, but a couple of you seemed to think it was the only issue of import. This version of double blind, is that I am supplying...

Re: Easy sex - an interesting bit of snake biotechnology

feeds@yuku.com (Rico Walder) — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 04:39:03 GMT

Interesting concept and one that's been thought of by others as well. Good luck working the details out. If you need sheds I have a stockpile of individually isolated & ID'd sheds. Of course there are a few more snakes here to get more if necessary.

Re: Easy sex - an interesting bit of snake biotechnology

feeds@yuku.com (geckos70) — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 13:51:04 GMT

Interesting idea on genetic sex determination. Good luck on optimizing your protocol. However, I would not worry about this being talked about on other forums because this forum has more than it's fair share of science geeks from multiple disciplines. I do have a couple of questions: Where are you currently working on this project if you don't mind me asking? I noticed in your profile that it said you are in Tennessee. Are you at a University and if so how did you get an IACUC...

Re: Easy sex - an interesting bit of snake biotechnology

feeds@yuku.com (Nick Metherd) — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 13:50:07 GMT

Here is my opinion on the answers to your questions.
1. Cost- it probably wouldn't be cheap. This would be something used on high end animals since most interested in buying a 300.00 animal isn't going to spend that amount for the test. What is the cost of electrophoresis these days? 10 yrs ago when I was in college it was about 300.00 a pop. Or on the flip side without telling us your costs, what is a generic range that you were looking to price this at?

2 + 3. The...

Re: Easy sex - an interesting bit of snake biotechnology

feeds@yuku.com (Christopher Feenan) — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 13:37:47 GMT

Yeah, I know what double blind means, and no, it doesn't mean all possible bias has been removed.

It means something simple, and specific. No, people "don't just say that ". If variables are being controlled, including investigator bias, then those controls are described. Researchers don't describe their method as double blind when it is not, unless they are trying to pretend that they are expert in something when they are not.

My BS alarm is going...

Re: Easy sex - an interesting bit of snake biotechnology

feeds@yuku.com (tylersquare) — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 12:56:03 GMT

double blind usually means that both the tester and testee are unaware of the treatment which they are being given (which could be a placebo type treatment). People usually just use that phrase to say that all possible bias has been eliminated from the testing process.

i'm a little curious as to how you're going to find markers for albinism without spending a LOT of money though. theres no albino reptiles with genomes sequenced that i could find

Re: Easy sex - an interesting bit of snake biotechnology

feeds@yuku.com (Christopher Feenan) — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 10:43:43 GMT

Are you sure that you are planning double blind trials ? How ? I mean, does it mean something different with snakes than it does with humans ?

Re: Easy sex - an interesting bit of snake biotechnology

feeds@yuku.com (5rings) — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 06:43:03 GMT

Yes, we are using DNA from shed scales. The sex chromosomes of snakes are visually pretty difficult to distinguish, unlike a human. Karyotypes are nearly useless in snakes. Therefore we had to find a gene sequence specific to male or female snakes. We think we have found one. Time will tell. Snake genetics are quite different than humans and we have a quite a bit yet to learn.

Yes, we can theoretically sex any snake, at any age, if the protocol works like we think it will. It only...

Re: Easy sex - an interesting bit of snake biotechnology

feeds@yuku.com (CarlosEcharte007) — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 05:35:55 GMT

Keep up the good work, this will change history!

Re: Easy sex - an interesting bit of snake biotechnology

feeds@yuku.com (Tim Morris1) — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 04:58:22 GMT

Having made almost exclusive use of sheds in molecular work I'm certain that any shed subsequent to the first can be used for determining the sex of an animal - the DNA is all the same. Finding the genes responsible for other traits such as albinism however will take considerable work (and money). Typically this type of work includes mapping the genome then working out what genes are responsible for what- this step can take a long time though it can (and has been) be done.

Tim

Re: Easy sex - an interesting bit of snake biotechnology

feeds@yuku.com (Nick Metherd) — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 22:05:05 GMT

Sorry I meant counting scales off of the shed and this could be done at any age. It is the measuring of the tail that would use the first shed and couldn't really use any other shed. Probably wouldn't work since sheds can be stretched and size varries in hatchlings. Greg I might shoot you an email in the next few days to see if we can come up with some ideas about counting scales.

I believe the author of this thread is probably doing some DNA testing on the initial shed. I...

Re: Easy sex - an interesting bit of snake biotechnology

feeds@yuku.com (greg stephens2) — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 16:12:07 GMT

If you guys need snakes to include in a study I have sex known animals and will have unsexed neonates hatching soon.
I typically hold back many of the neos so that could be helpful in verifying the process.
If you would be interested please shoot me an email.

Re: Easy sex - an interesting bit of snake biotechnology

feeds@yuku.com (tylersquare) — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 15:39:01 GMT

is there a reason the first shed would reveal the sex but not later sheds?

Easy sex - an interesting bit of snake biotechnology

feeds@yuku.com (5rings) — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 12:26:52 GMT

My wife and I are molecular biologists by training and we are total science geeks. We started wondering about snake genetics and began hatching some plans. So far we have done a little of the preliminary work but it looks promising so far. Here is where we are......

1. We think, emphasis on the "think", that we will be able to positively sex neonates with a fragment of their initial shed. That means no waiting for the babies to get old enough to probe. It also means no...